Post by poorboy1 on Jan 18, 2006 21:49:17 GMT -5
TRAIL PLANNING MEETING
11-28-05, FOREST GROVE DISTRICT OFFICE, 7:00 PM
Attendance:
Erik Dye, Alanna More, Alvery Stubblefied, Vance Waller, Rick Levine, Sean Fogle, James Treay, Pat Brenner, Dee Brenner, Kim Gray, Jason Gray, Gary Johnson, Jason Linse, Dan Hofer, Chris Dizick, Bill Manbeck, Kirt Amundson, Debra Drake Recreation Planner Tillamook field office of BLM, Barrett Brown, David Lund, Ian McMahon, Ron Rice, Joe Barrell, Kevin Lane, Clyde Zeller, Mike Cafferata, Mitch Taylor, Randy Peterson, Kelly Foster and Diane Montague.
BLM Update:
Debbie Drake BLM upper Nestucca trails going though RMP process environmental impact statement, Changes will be coming. Designated trails will be evaluated and potentially closed when scoping comment period is over. Designation will be included in the RMP process but not in the initial scope. Debbie indicates BLM is moving toward designated trails and is asking for assistance in identifying trails in the Trask BLM area as they would like to be part of the study. Molalla and Salem BLM also should be included. BLM, as of yet, has no designated 4x4 trails. The trails tend to be a “free for all” once the trails are designated OHV, motor cycle etc. there will be more organization in the trails. Also the transportation map shows ownership, there is confusion in what’s BLM property and what isn’t BLM property. Debbie’s direct line is 503 815-1134 and the BLM office number is 503 815 1100. debra_drake@blm.or.us
Law enforcement: Riders are pioneering trails, tearing up signs, riding in the wrong areas. This will no longer be tolerated by law enforcement. The deputies are citing riders and not just giving warnings as they have done in the past.
Tillamook State Forest Trail Closures & Issues:
Kelly handed out OHV maps using the overhead projector to show closed trails. Closures are graded S=Seasonal, P=Resource Protection and water quality, T=trail degradation and trail damage. Please see the department’s website at oregon.gov/ODF/TSF/tsf.shtml . This has the specifics.
Questions were asked about why the trails are closed. Kelly explained due to damage from misuse, degradation, timber sales, and other sources. Riders inquired about formal training that would allow then to make the decisions as to whether a tail should be closed or not.
Trail #1 Rogers Rd. Beaver Dam Browns Camp power line. Mud Bogs have been created by 4x4’s using the OHV trail and cannot be fixed without big equipment. The department is unable to move equipment back into the Powerline area and repair damage. The damage affects near by ponds filled with sediment and tributaries. Powder house Loop Rd and parts of the Powerline Access Road are closed for the above reasons.
Clyde’s trail has deep ruts repair work will be contracting out hopefully in the spring of 2006.
Hogs back: Follows the contour of the land but has significant upgrade work still left to be completed before it can be opened for public use.
Water issues are covered under the FP water act, very strict laws, using hay, water bars to prevent sediment contamination. New haul roads are development is administered through the departments Engineering Units.
Devils Lake Fork is habitat for Coho Erosion to Devil’s Lake Fork will require major repair that cannot be done at this time of year due to weather conditions. It was agreed riders want the trails to be challenging. It would be a “challenge” to repair the trail to its former state and keep it sustainable.
It was noted the trails should be challenging like Clyde’s trail. Then it was noted some riders wanted to take their children on Clyde’s trail and complained it was “too” difficult. Some riders complained trails are too easy not difficult enough. Seasonal closures are applied to help reduce sedimentation and erosion. Asking the riders to help do the repair work to trails wasn’t received enthusiastically. Riders do not want to ride on paved roads and rocked roads are not what the riders want to see. What is acceptable in the way of a trail? What are the standards? Trail specifications? These were some of the questions asked by the group during the meeting.
It was agreed we all need logging but we need more creative ideas instead of closing areas due to logging. It was noted a steady deterioration is occurring in the forests trail system. The need to involve ideas from trail users instead of just hearing complaints was brought up.
Set up specific work parties and get more folks out to work on the trails. When the event schedule is set, form work parties to work around the events were one suggestion.
Side Winder: Riders are using the hiking trail sections for OHV use. As previously discussed wet conditions and snow prohibits significant upgrade work in regards to the trail network.
Archer Fire Break Closure: Top of Portland Mills Road. Sign for hardening OHV trails. It was suggested to better post closure signs. Riders haven’t wanted to follow designated trails. Also need plastic signs not paper. Archers Firebreak is in the middle of phase II project work and some segments will remain closed until the project work is completed.
Chute trail, involved with D-Deyo Timber sale could be closed for more than one year.
Cedar Tree trail will open the spring/summer of 06. Rutting has set into the trail in segments. Some riders have made their own trails. Folks commented on a water crossing illegal created. Some segments are not hardened, out sloped, off cambered, and didn’t get rocked thereby rutting is moist conditions added with frequency.
Elliot Creek: Currently closed temporally. Riders are going around the barriers into fish bearing streams.
Island Trail: Currently closed during the wet season.
Gummy Worm: Is closed temporally because of the timber sale activity.
Saddle up trail eroding more getting wider and wider. Riders are not staying on the main trail, they are using illegal bypass segments. Will require major work as the top is widening. Only one tree at the top of the hillclimb is holding back part of the bank from collapsing.
Fire Break 5: Access road from Timber sale to Fire Break 5 looks like it is pumping mud. Preserve the trail then think about upgrading the trail was one idea. Need to use filters, sediment basins, OHV dips and possibly large rock. Riders are blazing their own trail was commented.
Rocky Uphill (part of AchersFirebreak): Jolly Jeepers and crew did great work. They built one Drain off structure and hopefully more work will take place this spring/summer.
Crusher trail: Can still be accessed by going up Saddle Mountain Rd. to the top of FB5 trail. Once at the top head down the trail to Crushers on the right. The bottom of FB-5 is affected by Bills’ Beaver trap timber sale and was said to be an eye sore.
One comment was made, riders feel loggers make the bigger mess and those problems get fixed but the OHV trails just get closed. This appears to be a political issue.
It was pointed out to the riders if some trails are allowed to be used before upgrade work is completed it will just make the trails worse. Repairing the trails is slow work. It was commented that a lot of trails are closed currently forcing riders to use the few trails that are still open and those trails are now being over used.
Spaur Cr. Trail - OHV Bridge: Clyde was directed to obtain development permits from Tillamook Co. for all of our planned trail bridges so the agency is complying with the county's "riparian ordinance". In order to obtain the development permit the county requires engineered bridge plans. Last spring we flew an RFP for engineering design services. We contracted with Peterson Engineering and spent $50,000 to have them develop the bridge designs and stamp these plans. Clyde is in the process of putting together his application to the county and hopes to have it in the Community Development Office by mid-Feb. The county permit requirement has significantly delayed the construction of may trail bridges including Spaur Creek Trail Bridge. At this time it is unclear what benefits the resource will accrue from complying the counties riparian ordinance and the application and permitting process. Once he has the permit he intends to bid out the construction of this 48' bridge.
LogJam Trail: 1400 feet of new trail and drainage structures were completed this last November. The trail will remain closed until some hardening projects are completed and Mother Nature allows. The single trac segment at the bottom of Toman’s Knob starting off the new part of Lag Jam Trail South Fork Prison crew will be build this spring/summer.
Jordan Creek Trail: 50 yards of a new reroute needs to take hold.
Mikes Trail (near diamond mill): Currently closed until significant upgrade work can be completed.
Purple Bug Stump: Clearing trail and filters are in the logging contract. Trails go back to OHV at the end of reforestation efforts are complete.
Discussed gatekeepers for new users who spin tires unnecessarily.
When a trail is closed, obstacles (such as large rocks) are better than gates was mentioned.
Timber Sales: There will be twenty three timber sales in 2007 occurring in Tillamook district. Fewer sales will occur in Forest Grove district by 2007.
Reeds Ridge South section might get turned into roads during timber sale activities.
Berry Cobbler should have little impact.
Annual Operations Plan: The group was encouraged to get involved. For Tillamook related operations one could call Clyde Zeller at 503.842.2545 or czeller@odf.state.or.us
For Forest Grove operations one should contact Randy Peterson at 503.357.2191 or rpeterson@odf.state.or.us
Dates to remember: Maps available Jan 1st
February 15th Public comments 45 days critical.
March 31st comment period ends
June 30th Final
Event Steward Program: Stewardship, by riders, of their own events. The department is still reviewing this program and the need for training is still apparent. Some of Event Stewards this last year found themselves in a different role when perceived as enforces during motorized events. Participation by volunteers was bleak due to conflicting commitments in their personal lives throughout the summer.
Miscellaneous Info and Comments:
The department will assess twenty-five miles of trail this fiscal year.
Build more trails so riders can get out of the Brown’s Camp area causing less damage to Brown’s Camp.
Trails seem to be disappearing we need to make more trails not off of spur roads which are necessary for logging.
Riders would like to see trail overlays for public
Riders want more advanced notice of up coming events and OHV related information.
Motorcycle clubs don’t get the cooperation they needed from with in their own organization
ODF and OHV people need to look within to see what we can do to make things better
Help ODF build more trails, work parties, and build solutions
Set specific work party dates each month.
Noted that Tillamook district trails are unique, case by case. Tillamook gets 90-120” rain per year
List of closure are posted on the web, oregon.gov/ODF/TSF/road_and_trail_rpt.shtml
The deputies have been citing folks for going around barrier work and operating on trails that are closed due to logging operations.
Next Meeting: Stay tuned for the announcement.
11-28-05, FOREST GROVE DISTRICT OFFICE, 7:00 PM
Attendance:
Erik Dye, Alanna More, Alvery Stubblefied, Vance Waller, Rick Levine, Sean Fogle, James Treay, Pat Brenner, Dee Brenner, Kim Gray, Jason Gray, Gary Johnson, Jason Linse, Dan Hofer, Chris Dizick, Bill Manbeck, Kirt Amundson, Debra Drake Recreation Planner Tillamook field office of BLM, Barrett Brown, David Lund, Ian McMahon, Ron Rice, Joe Barrell, Kevin Lane, Clyde Zeller, Mike Cafferata, Mitch Taylor, Randy Peterson, Kelly Foster and Diane Montague.
BLM Update:
Debbie Drake BLM upper Nestucca trails going though RMP process environmental impact statement, Changes will be coming. Designated trails will be evaluated and potentially closed when scoping comment period is over. Designation will be included in the RMP process but not in the initial scope. Debbie indicates BLM is moving toward designated trails and is asking for assistance in identifying trails in the Trask BLM area as they would like to be part of the study. Molalla and Salem BLM also should be included. BLM, as of yet, has no designated 4x4 trails. The trails tend to be a “free for all” once the trails are designated OHV, motor cycle etc. there will be more organization in the trails. Also the transportation map shows ownership, there is confusion in what’s BLM property and what isn’t BLM property. Debbie’s direct line is 503 815-1134 and the BLM office number is 503 815 1100. debra_drake@blm.or.us
Law enforcement: Riders are pioneering trails, tearing up signs, riding in the wrong areas. This will no longer be tolerated by law enforcement. The deputies are citing riders and not just giving warnings as they have done in the past.
Tillamook State Forest Trail Closures & Issues:
Kelly handed out OHV maps using the overhead projector to show closed trails. Closures are graded S=Seasonal, P=Resource Protection and water quality, T=trail degradation and trail damage. Please see the department’s website at oregon.gov/ODF/TSF/tsf.shtml . This has the specifics.
Questions were asked about why the trails are closed. Kelly explained due to damage from misuse, degradation, timber sales, and other sources. Riders inquired about formal training that would allow then to make the decisions as to whether a tail should be closed or not.
Trail #1 Rogers Rd. Beaver Dam Browns Camp power line. Mud Bogs have been created by 4x4’s using the OHV trail and cannot be fixed without big equipment. The department is unable to move equipment back into the Powerline area and repair damage. The damage affects near by ponds filled with sediment and tributaries. Powder house Loop Rd and parts of the Powerline Access Road are closed for the above reasons.
Clyde’s trail has deep ruts repair work will be contracting out hopefully in the spring of 2006.
Hogs back: Follows the contour of the land but has significant upgrade work still left to be completed before it can be opened for public use.
Water issues are covered under the FP water act, very strict laws, using hay, water bars to prevent sediment contamination. New haul roads are development is administered through the departments Engineering Units.
Devils Lake Fork is habitat for Coho Erosion to Devil’s Lake Fork will require major repair that cannot be done at this time of year due to weather conditions. It was agreed riders want the trails to be challenging. It would be a “challenge” to repair the trail to its former state and keep it sustainable.
It was noted the trails should be challenging like Clyde’s trail. Then it was noted some riders wanted to take their children on Clyde’s trail and complained it was “too” difficult. Some riders complained trails are too easy not difficult enough. Seasonal closures are applied to help reduce sedimentation and erosion. Asking the riders to help do the repair work to trails wasn’t received enthusiastically. Riders do not want to ride on paved roads and rocked roads are not what the riders want to see. What is acceptable in the way of a trail? What are the standards? Trail specifications? These were some of the questions asked by the group during the meeting.
It was agreed we all need logging but we need more creative ideas instead of closing areas due to logging. It was noted a steady deterioration is occurring in the forests trail system. The need to involve ideas from trail users instead of just hearing complaints was brought up.
Set up specific work parties and get more folks out to work on the trails. When the event schedule is set, form work parties to work around the events were one suggestion.
Side Winder: Riders are using the hiking trail sections for OHV use. As previously discussed wet conditions and snow prohibits significant upgrade work in regards to the trail network.
Archer Fire Break Closure: Top of Portland Mills Road. Sign for hardening OHV trails. It was suggested to better post closure signs. Riders haven’t wanted to follow designated trails. Also need plastic signs not paper. Archers Firebreak is in the middle of phase II project work and some segments will remain closed until the project work is completed.
Chute trail, involved with D-Deyo Timber sale could be closed for more than one year.
Cedar Tree trail will open the spring/summer of 06. Rutting has set into the trail in segments. Some riders have made their own trails. Folks commented on a water crossing illegal created. Some segments are not hardened, out sloped, off cambered, and didn’t get rocked thereby rutting is moist conditions added with frequency.
Elliot Creek: Currently closed temporally. Riders are going around the barriers into fish bearing streams.
Island Trail: Currently closed during the wet season.
Gummy Worm: Is closed temporally because of the timber sale activity.
Saddle up trail eroding more getting wider and wider. Riders are not staying on the main trail, they are using illegal bypass segments. Will require major work as the top is widening. Only one tree at the top of the hillclimb is holding back part of the bank from collapsing.
Fire Break 5: Access road from Timber sale to Fire Break 5 looks like it is pumping mud. Preserve the trail then think about upgrading the trail was one idea. Need to use filters, sediment basins, OHV dips and possibly large rock. Riders are blazing their own trail was commented.
Rocky Uphill (part of AchersFirebreak): Jolly Jeepers and crew did great work. They built one Drain off structure and hopefully more work will take place this spring/summer.
Crusher trail: Can still be accessed by going up Saddle Mountain Rd. to the top of FB5 trail. Once at the top head down the trail to Crushers on the right. The bottom of FB-5 is affected by Bills’ Beaver trap timber sale and was said to be an eye sore.
One comment was made, riders feel loggers make the bigger mess and those problems get fixed but the OHV trails just get closed. This appears to be a political issue.
It was pointed out to the riders if some trails are allowed to be used before upgrade work is completed it will just make the trails worse. Repairing the trails is slow work. It was commented that a lot of trails are closed currently forcing riders to use the few trails that are still open and those trails are now being over used.
Spaur Cr. Trail - OHV Bridge: Clyde was directed to obtain development permits from Tillamook Co. for all of our planned trail bridges so the agency is complying with the county's "riparian ordinance". In order to obtain the development permit the county requires engineered bridge plans. Last spring we flew an RFP for engineering design services. We contracted with Peterson Engineering and spent $50,000 to have them develop the bridge designs and stamp these plans. Clyde is in the process of putting together his application to the county and hopes to have it in the Community Development Office by mid-Feb. The county permit requirement has significantly delayed the construction of may trail bridges including Spaur Creek Trail Bridge. At this time it is unclear what benefits the resource will accrue from complying the counties riparian ordinance and the application and permitting process. Once he has the permit he intends to bid out the construction of this 48' bridge.
LogJam Trail: 1400 feet of new trail and drainage structures were completed this last November. The trail will remain closed until some hardening projects are completed and Mother Nature allows. The single trac segment at the bottom of Toman’s Knob starting off the new part of Lag Jam Trail South Fork Prison crew will be build this spring/summer.
Jordan Creek Trail: 50 yards of a new reroute needs to take hold.
Mikes Trail (near diamond mill): Currently closed until significant upgrade work can be completed.
Purple Bug Stump: Clearing trail and filters are in the logging contract. Trails go back to OHV at the end of reforestation efforts are complete.
Discussed gatekeepers for new users who spin tires unnecessarily.
When a trail is closed, obstacles (such as large rocks) are better than gates was mentioned.
Timber Sales: There will be twenty three timber sales in 2007 occurring in Tillamook district. Fewer sales will occur in Forest Grove district by 2007.
Reeds Ridge South section might get turned into roads during timber sale activities.
Berry Cobbler should have little impact.
Annual Operations Plan: The group was encouraged to get involved. For Tillamook related operations one could call Clyde Zeller at 503.842.2545 or czeller@odf.state.or.us
For Forest Grove operations one should contact Randy Peterson at 503.357.2191 or rpeterson@odf.state.or.us
Dates to remember: Maps available Jan 1st
February 15th Public comments 45 days critical.
March 31st comment period ends
June 30th Final
Event Steward Program: Stewardship, by riders, of their own events. The department is still reviewing this program and the need for training is still apparent. Some of Event Stewards this last year found themselves in a different role when perceived as enforces during motorized events. Participation by volunteers was bleak due to conflicting commitments in their personal lives throughout the summer.
Miscellaneous Info and Comments:
The department will assess twenty-five miles of trail this fiscal year.
Build more trails so riders can get out of the Brown’s Camp area causing less damage to Brown’s Camp.
Trails seem to be disappearing we need to make more trails not off of spur roads which are necessary for logging.
Riders would like to see trail overlays for public
Riders want more advanced notice of up coming events and OHV related information.
Motorcycle clubs don’t get the cooperation they needed from with in their own organization
ODF and OHV people need to look within to see what we can do to make things better
Help ODF build more trails, work parties, and build solutions
Set specific work party dates each month.
Noted that Tillamook district trails are unique, case by case. Tillamook gets 90-120” rain per year
List of closure are posted on the web, oregon.gov/ODF/TSF/road_and_trail_rpt.shtml
The deputies have been citing folks for going around barrier work and operating on trails that are closed due to logging operations.
Next Meeting: Stay tuned for the announcement.