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Post by Dicenn on Feb 11, 2007 20:51:07 GMT -5
my wife and kids are goig... i will try to get off work early and go... it is my birthday and it will be worth doing for my birthday....
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Post by poorboy1 on Feb 11, 2007 21:09:09 GMT -5
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Post by poorboy1 on Feb 12, 2007 21:24:02 GMT -5
Well, this is it everyone....it all comes down to tomorrow. Hopefully our army is plentiful and we can positively represent our wonderful family activity. Please give one last push to get the word out!!! Here is the news release that went out today across the State of Oregon. (a few changes were made). If you are waiting for someone else to carry the torch on your behalf, remember all to often, they too are waiting. State Representative Greg Smith House District 57 Serving Union, Wallowa, Umatilla, & Morrow Counties News Release: February 12, 2007 ATV Riders Rally At State Capitol To Preserve Family Fun (Salem) "We hope to bring common sense and real life experience into this picture," said Lindy Minten who is organizing a rally for a group of families who like to ride their All Terrian Vehicles. Minten is part of SAFETYride which stands for Sensible Alternatives for Educating and Training Youth. The rally is scheduled for 3 PM – 5 PM Tuesday February 13th on the Capitol Steps in Salem. The group is fighting Senate Bill 49 which Minten believes will "take the family out of four wheeling." Minten and others are voicing opposition to Senate Bill 49 which further restricts the use of ATVs by children under 16. The measure would prohibit children under 12 from riding ATV’s or motorcycles and limit children 12 to 16 years old to vehicles with engines 90 cubic centimeters or less. The Scio mom explained, "our whole family rides on ATVs including our three children. This legislation applies to public and private land, preventing us from doing work around our own farm." State Representative Greg Smith, a member of the House Transportation Committee is concerned about SB 49 as well as several other proposals moving through the legislature. Many of these bills were proposed by the Oregon Parks Department. One of these bills, House Bill 2064, requiring titles for all ATVs through the Oregon Department of Transportation is up for a hearing this afternoon, February 12th, in the House Transportation Committee at 3 PM in Room 357. Safety information will be distributed at the rally because Minten believes one key to reducing ATV accidents and injuries is education. "More importantly parents need to take responsibility; supervise their children and ride with their children," added Minten. "Families that ride together stay together." Minten estimates there are more than 500,000 riders in Oregon. She pointed out children grow at different rates and in some cases this new law would put an adult size child on a child sized vehicle. She would rather work with the Parks Department on a "best fit" approach. The sponsors of Senate Bill 49 are Senator Richard Devlin (D-Tualatin) and Senator Alan Bates (D-Ashland). You can check out the legislature’s web site www.leg.state.or.us to contact these senators and let them know how you feel about the bill. #### 900 Court Street NE H-280 Salem, OR 97301 ~ www.leg.state.or.us/smithgRep.gregsmith@state.or.us ~ 503.986.1457 PO Box 219, Heppner, OR, 97836 ~ 541-676-5154 |
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Post by poorboy1 on Feb 13, 2007 7:35:21 GMT -5
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Post by bdydmg on Feb 22, 2007 16:32:40 GMT -5
What gets me is why not stronger laws that punish parents who are at fault for the childs death..If you look at the type of parents that support this bill they are parents who lost a child from no saftey gear,,no supervision or really have no clue what the sport is about,,but just know that atv's are dangerous and it sounds like a good idea..Kyle the kid who this law I guess will be named after would have suspect to be alive had he not been alone.He was under a bike byhimself for 90min say so the report.. Call it what you will,,I call it neglect while your child was on a dangerous machine.. this always gets me fired up..  |
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Post by poorboy1 on Feb 22, 2007 22:49:05 GMT -5
i agree, why can a lady buy a kid a quad and then sign a waiver saying the kid wont be on it cause he is under 16 and then sign another waiver saying she dont want safety training and then when her kid gets killed she cry's she didnt know it was dangerous. In my opinion she shouldnt be backing bills but instead be behind bars.
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Post by poorboy1 on Feb 23, 2007 20:48:05 GMT -5
It is pretty interesting that Sue Rabe has claimed she has very little to to with Safekids and Senate Bill 49. It also surprises me that once again they refer to Kyle as being crushed. In the police report the medical examiner made it clear there was no trauma. He died from "positional asphyxia after laying with the ATV on his back for an extended period of time". He only had minor scrapes on his knees and back. Why haven't any of these news reporters ever checked out the real details. She has gone on far to long. It may seem insensitive... but it is time to release the facts. Your next email will have the contract of purchase clearly showing she was aware of the danger - "I didn't know, no one told me, if only the dealer would have...." You will see it was made clear beyond a reasonable doubt.....
Here is an easier way to write to all of them - just cut and paste!! But calling is better!! 800-332-2313 Please keep contacting!!! Let me know if there is a wrong number!!
sen.alanbates@state.or.us;sen.richarddevlin@state.or.us;sen.floydprozanski@state.or.us;sen.vickiwalker@state.or.us;sen.petercourtney@state.or.us;sen.ryandeckert@state.or.us;sen.ginnyburdick@state.or.us;sen.margaretcarter@state.or.us;sen.avelgordly@state.or.us ; sen.benwestlund@state.or.us;sen.kurtschrader@state.or.us,sen.katebrown@state.or.us
Sponsors: Sen. Alan Bates (503)986-1703, sen.alanbates@state.or.us He is from Ashland and has yet to respond to any of us.
Sen. Richard Devlin (503)986-1719. sen.richarddevlin@state.or.us He is from Tualatin, has responded but isn't familiar with ATV's/MC or this sport.
Safekids contacts: Sue Rabe 503-743-2670 She lost her son Kyle in 2002, is a member of Safekids, and this bill is nicknamed after her son.
Joann Fairchild 503-413-4239 She is a nurse and member of Safekids.
Undecided or unknown: Sen. Floyd Prozanski (503)986-1704, sen.floydprozanski@state.or.us He is from Eugene.
Sen. Vickie Walker (503)986-1707, sen.vickiwalker@state.or.us She is from Eugene, she has been very nice.
Sen. Peter Courtney, (503)986-1600 sen.petercourtney@state.or.us He is from Salem.
Sen. Ryan Deckert,(503)986-1714 sen.ryandeckert@state.or.us He is on the Committee and is from Beaverton.
Sen. Ginny Burdick, (503)986-1718 sen.ginnyburdick@state.or.us She is from Portland.
Sen. Margaret Carter, (503)986-1722 sen.margaretcarter@state.or.us She is from Portland.
Sen. Avel Gordly, (503)986-1723 sen.avelgordly@state.or.us She is from Portland and is very nice.
Sen. Ben Westlund, (503)986-1727 sen.benwestlund@state.or.us He is from Bend.
Hasn't had a chance Sen. Kurt Schrader, (503)986-1720 sen.kurtschrader@state.or.us He is from Canby and is very nice - would like info.
to look at: Sen. Kate Brown, (503)986-1700 sen.katebrown@state.or.us She represents parts of Clackamas and Mult..
From: Sen Schrader [mailto:Schrader.Sen@state.or.us]
Sent: Friday, February 23, 2007 10:22 AM
To: Potter, Tom
Subject: RE: SB 49
Thanks, Mr. *****, for your input. Constituent input is much appreciated for our reference when the bill comes up for the Senator's vote.
Sincerely,
Dana, Executive Assistant
Senator Kurt Schrader
900 Court St NE
S-209
Salem, OR 97301
Ph: 503-986-1720
Fax: 503-986-1870 KEEP CALLING AND WRITING - NO COMMITTMENT HERE...
*****************************************************************
Message I sent to Devlin's last night:
I will soon be sending out information with regard to Senate Bill 49, the connection to Sue Rabe and the bill's namesake "Kyle's law" and her connection as spokesperson and contact for Safekids. Senator Devlin had the courtesy to meet with me with regard to my concerns with this bill.. In return, I will give you both the courtesy of meeting with me or direct contact over the phone, prior to sending this information out to all of the Senators and Representatives. If I don't hear from you tomorrow, I will be sending it out in the evening with my updates. Thank you, Lindy Minten 503-394-2180
Reply:
Lindy,
As Patrick stated in the message he left you. The Senator is in meetings through out the day and will be leaving in the early afternoon for Ashland. I will tell him again that you request to speak with him but because of his busy schedule he might not have the time to call you. I would like to point out that Sue is not the contact person for Safe Kids Oregon. If you have visted the Safe Kids Oregon website it is stated clearly on the front home page that Adrienne Green is the contact for the Safe Kids Committee.
If you feel incline to send me a copy of what you are releasing I can also put it in front of him during his committee meeting and get his thoughts on what you are sending out.
Have a good weekend,
Anna
CORPORATE CRIME REPORTER
Parents Group Calls CPSC ATV Campaign Pure Public Relations, Won’t Save One Child
20 Corporate Crime Reporter 37(1), September 21, 2006
A group of parents who have lost children to ATV accidents today accused the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) of engaging in “pure public relations.”
Concerned Families for ATV Safety accused the CPSC of weakening safety regulations at the behest of the ATV industry.
“The CPSC's campaign is not going to save one child riding on an adult-sized ATV,” said Sue Rabe, a co-founder of Concerned Families for ATV Safety.
In May 2002, Rabe lost her son Kyle when his adult sized Arctic Cat ATV rolled over and crushed him to death.
Her group wants CPSC to pass a rule that would prohibit the sale of adult-sized ATVs -- over 90 cc -- for use by children under 16.
Instead, the CPSC today brought in famous race car drivers – including Richard Petty -- to the National Press Club to promote what the CPSC called “a major campaign to educate riders young and old on the safe use of ATVs.”
But Rabe said that “a child looks at Richard Petty and it makes the kid want to race an ATV."
“It’s counterproductive,” she said.
CPSC chair Nancy Nord tried her best to send a safety message.
“ATVs are not toys, especially adult ATVs, which can travel at 60 miles per hour and weigh up to 800 pounds,” Nord said. “Children should only ride youth model ATVs – there have been too many children killed while driving or riding as a passenger on adult ATVs.”
But Rabe said putting aside Nord’s rhetoric, the CPSC new campaign will undermine safety because the CPSC is weakening the rules on youth-sized ATVs.
“Right now, the ATV industry and the CPSC have a golden rule – no one under 16 riding an adult sized ATV,” Rabe said. “That means no child under 16 on anything larger than a 90 cc vehicle. But the CPSC and the industry want to change that so that children 12 to 16 can ride vehicles that are larger than 90 cc – anywhere from 125cc to 175 cc. They are changing the definition of ‘adult-sized ATVs.’ This will lead to more children dying on ATVs.”
“It’s a huge step in the wrong direction,” Rabe said. “No child under 16 should be on an adult sized ATV – meaning anything over 90 cc.”
Rabe, who lives in Turner, Oregon, is working to get the Oregon legislature to pass “Kyle’s Law” which would prohibit the sale and use of adult sized ATVs by children under the age of 16.
Rabe says that already North Carolina has passed a statute outlawing the use of adult sized ATVs by children under the age of 16.
How would a state enforce a law against selling an ATV vehicle for use by children?
“Well, right now there is a law against selling tobacco and alcohol for use by children,” Rabe said. “And most parents get the message.”
According to the CPSC, the number of four-wheel ATVs in use in the United States has increased from just over 2 million to more than 6.9 million over the past decade.
From 1982 through 2004, there were nearly 6,500 deaths involving ATVs.
In 2004 alone, an estimated 136,000 people were treated in hospital emergency rooms for ATV related injuries – many life-altering.
In 2003, an estimated 740 people died nationwide in ATV incidents.
About 30 percent of all deaths and injuries involve children younger than 16.
It appears that the battle for ATV safety is shaping up as a battle between parents who have lost children to ATV accidents, pediatric physicians, neurosurgeons, and trauma nurses – against the ATV industry and the CPSC.
“The CPSC should come over to our side and listen to us,” Rabe said. “We’re the ones who have lost children. The industry is making money by selling the vehicle
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Post by poorboy1 on Feb 23, 2007 20:51:59 GMT -5
My only question is why Sue Rabe is not in jail? Child endangerment pure and simple.
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Post by mudslinger97117 on Feb 24, 2007 9:27:01 GMT -5
Sue to LindyI would like to thank you for sharing your opinion and will respond to all of you only this once to let you know just how I really feel and not what you think I am about.
First of all I am not sponsoring the ATV bill. It is coming from Safe Kids of Oregon which is a National Organization that has branches in every state. They have worked with many other organization such as the Academy of Pediatric, American Academy of Neurosurgeons, American Academy of Orthopedic Surgeon and so on. They have all come up with the National recommendation that no child under 16 should be allowed to ride any ATV. Safe Kids asked me about a year ago to speak about what happened to my son Kyle. After hearing of his death they asked if I would help them draft a bill to keep kid off ATV 's. I told them that I thought atv's were OK for children as long as they weren't the adult size machines. This is the bill they came up with, because like I said earlier their group doesn't want any child on an ATV at all. I told them that if they stuck to the SVIA's model legislation which I will attach below that I didn't think we would have a problem. As the bill reads now it would ban children under 12 from riding an ATV. I asked them to compromise to the age/size recommendations as stated by the industry. I truly believe I can get them to do this but only if we keep children under 16 from riding the adult size atv's.
As far as statistic go for bikes verses atv's. For one, bikes aren't motorized, they aren't heavy, and they can't go highway speeds. The statistics show that you are twice as likely to die or become seriously injured from an ATV accident as compared to a bike. When doing comparisons, ATV's are more like an automobile than a bike, skateboard or snowboard. Would you let your child drive your car before the age of 16 just because he was big enough and you were on a family vacation? You have to remember that Safe Kids is made up of doctors, trauma nurses and public health officials that do have the facts.
We have national and state statistics that prove children under 16 die more from crushing injuries than anything else even if a parent is right there next to them. Since Kyle died I have visited with hundreds of families who will live the rest of their lives without their child or with a severally handicapped child that will never have a normal life again. These are not horrible parents, they are just uninformed parents. My husband and myself take full responsibility for Kyle's death. Our dealer too shares the blame. He picked out the machine for us and fit Kyle on it when he was only eight. It was Kyle's second atv. He had grown out of this smaller one. He sold us a helmet and trained our son. What he didn't even know at the time was that a child doesn't have the cognitive skills no matter how much training he has to handle an adult size machine. He can't shift his weight properly and he can't make that split second decision if something goes wrong. Most importantly, he can't lift a machine of that weight off of him.
We know there is a huge difference in the kind of ATV Kyle was riding on our farm compared to the ones you guys ride on the dunes. If there was some way to come up with a weight/speed restriction instead of an age/size restriction I think that would solve more of the problems with this bill. If you can think of a way I'd love to hear it.
Again, I am not against atv's nor children and families riding ATV 's. I just don't want to have any other families suffer as we have because of a child being on an adult size ATV before he/she is of age to ride it.
Sue Rabe
Concerned Families for ATV Safety
Sue, we can agree to disagree. I too have looked at the numbers and I too have met with many families that hold this sport dear. My children are not safe on a smaller kid sized ATV. My daughter is eleven, 5'7 and 130lbs,my son 12 is 5'9.6" and 150 pounds. I have read many articles, including the CSPC overview "Determining a proper weight for a youth ATV". They can be more dangerous, center of gravity, ability to control, and weight ratio unsafe. Both of my children ride quads that fit their body type - and they are adult bikes. I've read suggestions that a child's quad should weigh no more than four times the weight of the child. My children's quads weigh in at 370 pounds, approximately three and 2.5 times their weight. Experience also plays a part and this bill fails to address safety training, etc. This bill would ban my daughter completely, and force my son to ride an unsafe vehicle. How is that a good thing for kids??
The statistics regarding bicycles vs. quads do not support that quads are more dangerous. In fact, Safekids own website lists these statistics:
2003 under age 16 ATV fatalities = 111, Injuries 38,000.
2002 under age 14 bicycle fatalities = 130, Injuries 285,000.
Either my math is all fuzzy or 247,000 more injuries occur with bicycles, 19 more fatalities. Of course we are not comparing the same year - but you also have to take into consideration the statistics for ATV's are to age 16, not 14.
There are around eight million ATV's in the United States. In our state there have been only 109 ATV fatalities(including adult) from 1982 to 2004. Many I am sure were preventable if there would have been adult supervision, safety training, and helmets. Sadly, your campaign is taking the attention off the true problem - that is not going to help children but actually endanger them more. Why haven't you addressed or pushed for additional laws and penalties for children that are unsupervised? I have read almost every one of the ATV deaths you list on your website and with the exception of a few, there wasn't an adult present and oftentimes they had no helmets. When there was an adult present they were on a quad designed for one person with the victim. So I don't understand why you would focus on adult sized ATV's and banning children from riding. Supervision and caution is key.
Sadly, there are three bills being proposed by the Parks and Recreation Department that will get the overflow of bad press that Senate Bill 49 will bring. They have spent years working with ATV clubs, law enforcement, etc. and have come up with bills supported by most of the ATV community. Senate Bill 49 will certainly cause a significant loss of support for these bills as there will be a bitter taste in everyone's mouth concerning ATV restrictions. It is my understanding that you are strongly in support of this bill and have been at the capitol handing out information and lobbying for it. Have you not considered the damage this could do to good legislation?
In many ways this is good. For too long we have been ignorant to what has been going on at the Federal level and other states. The good thing about Senate Bill 49 is that it is so extreme it wakes us up and we are becoming a very well organized team willing to fight such ridiculous legislation. Did you ever look at why all the conservation groups are backing you?? Sometimes you can't see the forest through the trees....in this case, we aren't supposed to see the trees - at least not from a wheeled vehicle.
After reading your response I must say that I think your intention is good - just misguided. Please look at the numbers again and address the real problem. I am sorry for the loss of your son but there are other ways besides death to lose a child. Please help us stay connected to ours. I am more than happy to meet with you, in fact you are welcome to visit our home, meet my children, look at the bikes they ride and in turn I will listen to all you have to say with an open mind. You are only a few miles from me and maybe two moms working toward what is best for their child can cut through all the politics. I would like that very much. Let me know and thank you, Lindy
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Post by oldcoote on Feb 24, 2007 11:06:54 GMT -5
I kinda hope the bill passes, I do have kids, I have owned quads, but I dont think kids should be on the bigger quads, However there should be exeptions to this..... such as racing them, as far as just pleasure riding...i think there should be a limit as to the size, I think it should be larger then a 90cc like maybe a 125cc or 150cc
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Post by viddiesel on Feb 24, 2007 11:31:14 GMT -5
Should not be up any body but the parents as to these types of questions . and the age means nothings some kids are really big at 12, and some young kids can handle a full size quad even when their weight is lower. Its all about experience and supervision. Stick a kid on a quad that doesn't have The exp he may break an arm!
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Post by poorboy1 on Feb 24, 2007 11:56:58 GMT -5
my 14 year old is big enough to ride any quad out there. next year he will be driving a 6000lb 4x4 truck but cant ride a 250cc quad? dont make sense to me?
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Post by poorboy1 on Feb 24, 2007 12:19:42 GMT -5
should a 5 year old try riding a 10 speed bicycle in the street? no... He cant touch the ground or control it. Do we need a law to tell us he cant ride it? NO.. We dont need laws to replace common sense. If my 150lb 14 year old who is taller than me is big enough to ride a 400ex then he should ride a 400ex. I dont need new laws because they refuse to enforce laws that are out there.
Kids get killed every year running into streets with out looking. Do we need laws saying kids under 12 should be on a leash? Maybe outlaw kids in public all together? Lets see if we pass enough laws there will be no need for parents or supervision at all.
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Post by Dicenn on Feb 25, 2007 10:59:53 GMT -5
cool then all of us parants can go on vacation... but by then we will not be albe to drink, smoke, or tell a dirty joke.... unless we go to Mexico which is starting to look a lot freer of a country then ours... that is sad... and that is were all the jobs will be soon enough anyway...
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Post by oldcoote on Feb 25, 2007 11:04:56 GMT -5
ok, ok, ok, I conceed...... I was watching everyone post there opinion and I posted mine, its just different from yours is all.
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